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How are you gating/clocking/sequencing your 1010music modules? --POLL--

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  • How are you gating/clocking/sequencing your 1010music modules? --POLL--

    A couple of issues with gating and clocking of the 1010music modules exist (e.g. syncing/polyphony) and sometimes solutions are proposed that only work via MIDI.
    It would be interesting to know how users are clocking/gating/sequencing their modules.
    22
    mostly via MIDI
    18.18%
    4
    mostly via Eurorack sequencers/gating/CV - devices
    77.27%
    17
    mostly standalone (no external control)
    4.55%
    1
    CV via DAW
    0%
    0
    Last edited by pascalm; 06-09-2018, 03:10 PM.

  • #2
    Missed off an important Poll: CV via DAW example Audio out from a non DC coupled audio card like the Motu 2408 Mk3 or ADAT to Expert Sleepers ES-3.

    DAW sync is important as it is sample accurate (compared to midi clock) and any delay in sync can be adjusted for within the DAW. Perfect sync every time and very flexible.

    I find that I have to send different clocks to the Bitbox and the Beatstep Pro, you can also adjust for live monitoring sync as you are always at the mercy of your sound cards ASIO round trip.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Sam Spacey View Post
      Missed off an important Poll: CV via DAW example Audio out from a non DC coupled audio card like the Motu 2408 Mk3 or ADAT to Expert Sleepers ES-3.

      DAW sync is important as it is sample accurate (compared to midi clock) and any delay in sync can be adjusted for within the DAW. Perfect sync every time and very flexible.

      I find that I have to send different clocks to the Bitbox and the Beatstep Pro, you can also adjust for live monitoring sync as you are always at the mercy of your sound cards ASIO round trip.
      sorry, didn't think about that, i've added this possibility
      Last edited by pascalm; 06-09-2018, 03:11 PM.

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      • #4
        I saw the potential of the midi inputs when I first bought a bitbox, to integrate it into my existing studio setup (which has a lot of different midi controllers) and I have used midi for clocking and syncing duties with all of the 1010 modules ever since, as it's just so logical and easy to use trs cables to connect them all.. I do use CV for all kinds of modulation (it's good to have the EXTinputs free for that), but my primary clocking/syncing is all done via midi

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        • #5
          I clock/trigger mine with a Nerdseq. But will be getting the TSR to get the midi clock to the BB for a stronger clock. Also picking up a shakmat for drum triggering. Nerd for melodic components, four rook forook for drum triggering. Going to add a PNW as well for various longer triggering

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          • #6
            A good test to show up the differences of jitter midi and sample accurate audio is to load up 4 Bassdrum samples on the first 4 pads. Then trigger them all at the same time every beat.

            Do this with midi and it flams all over the place (at the mercy of a serial interface and usually a USB interface driving it) ... however, if you use the triggers on a beatstep pro or even tighter timing the cv outputs from Expert Sleepers ES-3 you will hear the difference.

            Midi will always drift all over the place, even the so-called sample accurate midi interfaces (cough midex 8 I'm looking at you) were spewing out +/- 15ms jitter on a single track. Add in a full project and you can kiss goodbye tight midi.

            The Bitbox does really well with the speed of firing off the signals but you are totally reliant on the source firing the samples to the Bitbox. With a Daw, you can adjust for sync delays which are usually more than you might think to get the timing nice and tight.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Sam Spacey View Post
              A good test to show up the differences of jitter midi and sample accurate audio is to load up 4 Bassdrum samples on the first 4 pads. Then trigger them all at the same time every beat.

              Do this with midi and it flams all over the place (at the mercy of a serial interface and usually a USB interface driving it) ... however, if you use the triggers on a beatstep pro or even tighter timing the cv outputs from Expert Sleepers ES-3 you will hear the difference.

              Midi will always drift all over the place, even the so-called sample accurate midi interfaces (cough midex 8 I'm looking at you) were spewing out +/- 15ms jitter on a single track. Add in a full project and you can kiss goodbye tight midi.

              The Bitbox does really well with the speed of firing off the signals but you are totally reliant on the source firing the samples to the Bitbox. With a Daw, you can adjust for sync delays which are usually more than you might think to get the timing nice and tight.
              That's a limitation of MIDI itself due to it's small bandwidth, not jitter. MIDI jitter is a completely different issue.

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              • #8
                I understand that believe me I do...but the jitter itself creates more flams and flanges than the serial nature of an 8bit/10bit midi protocol can. Add them together and it's a recipe for sloppy timing. Bottom line is that CV (especially when triggered by a sample accurate device) is vastly superior in feel/timing than the randomness of midi... unless of course the loose feel is what you are after

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sam Spacey View Post
                  I understand that believe me I do...but the jitter itself creates more flams and flanges than the serial nature of an 8bit/10bit midi protocol can. Add them together and it's a recipe for sloppy timing. Bottom line is that CV (especially when triggered by a sample accurate device) is vastly superior in feel/timing than the randomness of midi... unless of course the loose feel is what you are after
                  Again, that's just a MIDI limitation that would happen with any MIDI interface - can't be fixed unless we finally bother and make MIDI 2.0. Stacking notes causes this since commands are... sent one after the other. 8 notes? 8 commands in sequence, meaning you will hear flam. MIDI jitter happens regardless even if it's only just one note.

                  That said, I never really noticed it when using MIDI to control my bitbox, despite using quite a few voices. It receives MIDI from my BSP through my mio10 interface.

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                  • #10
                    Ok you seem to be missing the point.

                    Yes .........I understand the serial nature of midi, very well versed and experienced in that area. My point is that even with the delay'ed signals due to the 'serial' nature of midi you have to also contend with jitter....

                    Jitter is mainly down to the mercy of the unit sending the information and has nothing to do with midi protocol itself.

                    This is very easy to test which I have done extensively by using an audio to midi interface so the sending source is always sample accurate. Even the slow midi JV 1080 benefits hugely from doing this.

                    There are actual sample accurate midi interfaces out there, namely the Expert Sleepers USAMO or the ES-3 running the audio to midi software.

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S2Af53kZbs

                    My whole point if you ignore anything else I have said is simply this:

                    Fire 8 cv's to 8 separate samples on the Bitbox via say the Beatstep pro gate outputs and you will have very tight timing

                    Do it via the midi out of any interface and slop is to be heard. If you can't hear it then great.... although a large amount of people can and it bugs them.

                    This is not a put down of Bitbox as when receiving Gate signals to trigger it is very tight indeed.

                    I look forward to you telling me how I do not understand midi

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                    • #11
                      i use both mid & cv mode, depends on what situation, i also hope bitbox will have some mode ( excluding slicer mode ) which can assign different sample on different midi key freely, such as drum map...... C1 for kik , D1 for snr , E1 for HH....something like this....

                      thanks

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