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Looping odd Bar-lengths

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  • Looping odd Bar-lengths

    Hi,
    I'm currently using the Octatrack to playback long samples for my live set. I would love to switch to a Blackbox to save space. The thing is I can't really figure out if the Blackbox can loop longer clips that aren't even numbers of Bars.
    For example a 71 Bar loop. Or a 121 Bar.. In the Octatrack I can simply tell the machine that the sample is 71 Bars long and it will loop accordingly.
    From what I understand the Blackbox has the looping behavior of a clip that I need, so it's simply a matter of if it can handle Odd numbered Bar lengths?
    (I use simple 4/4 time signature, so no jazzy experimentation here)

    Anyone has insight into this, or know if there's a way to work around it?

  • #2
    You can experiment with the quant size and beat count parameters. You can also set the sync interval depending on the material. The beat count can be Auto - 512. You record audio in quantized pieces or a custom length. In 4/4, you are always following the 'power of 2' rule. The blackbox can play sequences of any odd time signature but audio clips are different.

    Comment


    • CharlieThorstenson
      CharlieThorstenson commented
      Editing a comment
      Okay. so, if i understand this currently, I can tell the Blackbox that my loop is up to 512 beats long. That would mean a maximum of 128 bars long (512/4=128). Is that correct? I also assume I could set a loop to be 111 bars long (444 beats)..?
      If so that would solve my "issue" with most of my loops as they are under 128 bars long. I guess I could make the really long ones shorter.

      Or does "the power of 2" also apply in this case?

      Coming from the Octatrack this all sounds a bit confusing. Hopefully Octatrack-like settings can be implemented on the Blackbox in the future, as they are very straightforward: Just set how long your loop is, whether it being 1 bar or 213 bars, then "loop: On" and it will loop until you tell it not to. Easy!

  • #3
    I can't seem to get a clear answer anywhere... Can someone help me out?

    1. Can I loop a 71bar (for example) sample by setting beat count to 284 (71 x 4). If not, how can I do this?

    2. Longer samples. 224bars for example. Are these impossible to loop? If possible, can you explain how to go around to do this

    3. Let's say I make a 256bar loop. It's in the power of 2. Are these possible to loop?

    For me, these scenarios are very common and a key to how I play live... I'm hoping the Blackbox can do these things..

    Comment


    • #4
      if you wanna share a link with me to download (24/48) examples of the loops, and tell me their beat counts I'll play with them, and we can look at the results together. I'm not optimistic tho....

      Comment


      • #5
        shankiphonic Wow, that would be super-helpful! Appreciate this a lot. Link coming up!

        Comment


        • #6
          yup, currently the blackbox is quite “difficult” in terms of handling odd bars

          Comment


          • #7
            I worked it out.
            better results than I expected.
            video to follow.

            Comment


            • #8
              Originally posted by CharlieThorstenson View Post
              I can't seem to get a clear answer anywhere... Can someone help me out?

              1. Can I loop a 71bar (for example) sample by setting beat count to 284 (71 x 4). If not, how can I do this?

              2. Longer samples. 224bars for example. Are these impossible to loop? If possible, can you explain how to go around to do this

              3. Let's say I make a 256bar loop. It's in the power of 2. Are these possible to loop?

              For me, these scenarios are very common and a key to how I play live... I'm hoping the Blackbox can do these things..
              1. yes.
              2. 224 bars won't play properly. trim to 128b or extend to 256b
              3. yes, and by the same rule: 512, 1024, 2048 bars.

              Comment


              • shankiphonic
                shankiphonic commented
                Editing a comment
                was wondering when you would chime in ​​​​​​​@Michal Ho ...

              • CharlieThorstenson
                CharlieThorstenson commented
                Editing a comment
                Ah! A big thanks for finally clearing this up!
                So up to 128 bars everything should be OK, and above that 256, 512, 1024 and so on..!

                Now I can finally relax my little brain on this

            • #9
              We were all thinking way too hard about this.
              @CharlieThostenson - if you listen to what's attached, you should hear something familiar -this clip is not long enough to hear the whole loop, but I ran it for hours...... great atmospheres, man!

              https://www.instagram.com/p/CSOfh04FA-X
              Last edited by shankiphonic; 08-06-2021, 01:13 PM. Reason: typo

              Comment


              • CharlieThorstenson
                CharlieThorstenson commented
                Editing a comment
                Nice groove! Thanks for trying it out!

            • #10
              I finally got around to documenting my findings.
              What you'll see here is that I'm a sequence fiend, and approaching this requirement with sequences was not a problem (for "power of 2" samples).
              You'll also see that I'm borderline willfully ignorant about the extended functionality of clips.
              I detailed a limitation towards the end of the recording.
              Hope that helps.
              Will you be getting a blackbox?

              Comment


              • shankiphonic
                shankiphonic commented
                Editing a comment
                Now I want to see/hear what you’re going to do with it!

              • Georges
                Georges commented
                Editing a comment
                thank you the video, interesting workflow, so far i’ve only worked with clips (alas no odd bars because of the limitation) and used seqs for creating song parts, and then song mode to trigger the seqs (which are song parts), maybe i should open up my workflow, so what you are saying is: with clips you don’t need sequences but with sample+seqs+gate one can be potentially more flexible in case of odd bars?

              • shankiphonic
                shankiphonic commented
                Editing a comment
                Georges
                I think that clips work very nicely for audio samples that are created within a blackbox preset, e.g. external recording (L,R,L+R) or resampling.
                They just do the right thing.
                My last weekend project, for example ( https://www.instagram.com/p/CSntS00N..._web_copy_link ) was very clip-centric, focused on sounds sampled from external synths.

                In the case of the samples shown in this video, I chose to use sequences with gated samples because that's what worked for me according to my interpretation of the use case.
                If the BPM of a "foreign born" sample is suitable to line up with your PSET/SONG bpm, then you could probably use the sample as a Clip, and get similar control by setting the launch mode to "Toggle". you just need to determine what settings to use on the Pads>Misc. Again, when you sample something into the blackbox, I think this just works with beat count set to auto...
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