Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Transparency and roadmap

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Transparency and roadmap

    Basically, people requesting a lot of stuff and have various issues. Then, in rare cases, Aaron or Christine drop in and say something similar "it's on the list" or "cool idea". Most of the time, nothing actually happens. And nobody knows why. Even though it seems to be on "a list". Maybe the "wont do list"? The users spent quite a lot of money on your products and there are some issues which are a big deal to them which are causing frustration (this is the #1 inspiration and flow killer). But all they can do is hoping that it might getting fixed eventually in the future.

    So not only this device but the whole development process is a blackbox

    I'm asking to bring more transparency into the development of the blackbox and also the other 1010music products. A possible first step would be a roadmap with all the issues and requests. For example, the creators of the great sample manager Sononym doing it exemplary: https://trello.com/b/5CAMhCj1/sononym-roadmap

    They actually have two boards, one for the requests and one for the issues. Maybe you don't need a Trello board but you get the idea.

    Another thing - especially for the 1010music team - would be a comprehensive list of requested features with a voting function. This could help you a lot in prioritizing things (I'm aware that you are searching staff for that...). Of course there is the like button on each post but this is rather implicit and the list of threads is not easy to read and interpret because it's long, full of duplicates, the topics are mixed up and there's no possibility to downvote.

    That's it. Let me know what you think.
    Lets make things better together!
    Last edited by Klaustrophil; 12-10-2019, 04:57 PM. Reason: minor wording stuff

  • #2
    Since this topic comes up from time to time, let me try and address the topic at a higher level.

    I can certainly appreciate the want/need to know what's coming. I too would like to have a clear picture of the upcoming features that will delight the maximum number of users of existing products--while at the same time allocating a reasonable amount of effort into new products that no one is asking about yet.

    There are several challenges here:
    1) Creating such a roadmap
    2) Keeping it up to date, which is a huge ongoing effort
    3) Communicating it so as to not disappoint people when plans change or sometimes get cancelled completely.

    The vast majority of musical instrument companies do not provide a public roadmap of upcoming features. I know there are a few exceptions here. We believe strongly in the idea of doing the work first and then selling it to the public. We encourage you to buy products based on what they do now--not what they might do in the future.

    Regarding the voting for features, my best argument against it is Boaty McBoatFace (look it up). The overwhelming lesson is do not offer voting on something you are not prepared to honor. There are lots of reasons to do or not do a feature. Popularity is only one dimension.

    Our goal is to make you extremely happy with your current and future purchase. We spend a lot of time thinking about this and working on it. Please forgive us if we don't communicate as much as you would like about the work in progress and on the drawing board.

    In closing, I hope this helps. We do appreciate your suggestions and thankfully now have more resources to talk with you about them.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thank you for the answer!

      Originally posted by Aaron View Post
      The vast majority of musical instrument companies do not provide a public roadmap of upcoming features. I know there are a few exceptions here. We believe strongly in the idea of doing the work first and then selling it to the public. We encourage you to buy products based on what they do now--not what they might do in the future.
      Having no roadmap might be a common practice but this doesn't mean it's a good one. From a user perspective and my experience with many communities around software I can say that transparency is highly appreciated and leads to happy users.
      And with "transparency" I don't mean "promising users things they might want to hear" but communicating open about suggestions and problems as well as giving insights about what is going on in the company. I know that it costs resources but maintaining an adequate level will pay out, given that the product is valuable enough to keep people interested. And some your products definitely are!

      Originally posted by Aaron View Post
      Regarding the voting for features, my best argument against it is Boaty McBoatFace (look it up). The overwhelming lesson is do not offer voting on something you are not prepared to honor. There are lots of reasons to do or not do a feature. Popularity is only one dimension.
      Sure there are many factors. But again, everyone has to guess what these factors could be. Current software architecture? Hard to integrate into the user interface? Hardware limitations? Human resources? You're just not convinced of the actual value? And I agree with you that putting everything to vote will cause difficulties. But a curated list (maybe this thing you already have?) should work well.

      Anyways, sorry for complaining so much. Please see it as a compliment because your product is has so much potential that I spend time with giving feedback.
      Most of the time, I just get rid of things very quickly and move on.

      Comment


      • #4
        Aaron - I think you guys are doing alright - Priority should be fixing bugs, any new features are a blessing and clearly with the firmware updates you have this under consideration.

        Comment


        • #5
          I think things are fine as they are. Updates are coming out fast by any standard (both bug fixes and new features), and the device already does everything it's marketed to do (to my knowledge). The way you listen to the community, and support your products, was definitely a factor in my decision to buy the blackbox, but not because of specific features that weren't there at the time. Just keep doing what you're doing

          Comment


          • #6
            I think my wording was not clear. It's not all about whole new features like this new multi-sample mode and other stuff you will read on a data sheet before buying this box. But there are many rather small things which are needing improvement to (vastly) increase the usability. Things like editing an existing sequence without scrolling over every note, seeing full file names, line instead of modular levels on the outputs, pre-listening stuff on headphones, turning off the resonance of the filter to entirely filter out audio, efficient usage of the space on the screen, highlighting loaded samples in the browser and many additional workflow and live performance optimizations... Stuff like that. It's all reported in the forum but there's no feedback by 1010 on most of it.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Klaustrophil View Post
              It's all reported in the forum but there's no feedback by 1010 on most of it.
              Please know that we are absolutely listening. It isn't practical for us to comment on every new suggestion as it comes up. You're probably tired of hearing "thanks for suggestion, we will take it under consideration." Part of the point of the forum is to see which suggestions generate a wave of support and which ones seem like one person by themselves.

              Please also know that it is way more efficient for us to do a detailed review of the forum every few weeks for feature ideas as opposed to responding to each new request as it comes in. I would rather spend our time implementing the features than just talking about them.

              As always, thank you for your support.

              Comment


              • #8
                I think there's enough transparency, since day 1 from the release of the blackbox I've been on this forum, and the 1010music team has already answered all my questions, and even my suggestions for future updates (look for granular synthesis for example) where implemented (even those that I thought that they weren't and I needed, like MIDI thru). Both Aaron and Christine have made very clear that updates on the blackbox are user-demand dependent, waiting for a roadmap to show up can be detrimental for developers and users, as users can and will get impatient for future updates already posted on the roadmap which is really hard to achieve from the development perspective. Also, I choose blackbox as a product that currently ticked up my boxes before committing into one, because I already believe that it was a product that I wanted, not in the "what if" or "maybe in future updates" mindset, also, blackbox as it is, is a superb piece of hardware, even in the most basic functions, and the constant updates on really surprising aspects, are really weird to happen in the audio-hardware panorama.

                kudos to 1010music

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Klaustrophil View Post
                  I think my wording was not clear. It's not all about whole new features like this new multi-sample mode and other stuff you will read on a data sheet before buying this box. But there are many rather small things which are needing improvement to (vastly) increase the usability. Things like editing an existing sequence without scrolling over every note, seeing full file names, line instead of modular levels on the outputs, pre-listening stuff on headphones, turning off the resonance of the filter to entirely filter out audio, efficient usage of the space on the screen, highlighting loaded samples in the browser and many additional workflow and live performance optimizations... Stuff like that. It's all reported in the forum but there's no feedback by 1010 on most of it.
                  I fully agree with you. I think the black box team is very responsive to the user’s needs and requests.
                  however fixing a bug is not always an explicit story. Take an example for the recent update which especially me I am refraining from performing the update although some bugs get fixed. For me the most nasty thing that happened with this update is the implementation of program change reception in all midi channels. This a feature that I believe we don’t know how many people asked for that. For me it’s a deal break. I prefer having bugs instead of this useless and clumsy feature. I have described in another post why I hate it. Some people might think that this is a bug fix. For me it’s a pure mess. It destroys the majority of my projects.
                  definetaly a poll should be created for all the upcoming features. As Aaron said there are many factors that can decide if something will make it in the os of BBOX. But the most logical thing to start with is the users requests. Now everything is scattered throughout the whole forum and it can be misguiding for the people that want to add something in the wishlist. It is also misguiding for the developers as well. Personally I think Aaron should decide upon which direction he should devote his resources. For example, do the users want a more efficient sequencer or a better sampler. In my opinion a better sampler is needed since there are many ways to sequence bbox and the already present sequencer is Good enough to do basic things and construct a sketch of a song or keep a reminder about what this preset that you have loaded is about. If you wanna do serious sequencing work you have to choose other methods of sequencing(hard or soft).
                  Then again I might be wrong and the vast majority of users would like a better bbox sequencer. We will never know unless a poll is created for that purpose. Anyway the developers are the ones to decide upon which direction they will head to regardless of the poll results.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I was just coming here after thinking about having a pinned poll to better organize and prioritize things. We cannot however keep the team away from the real work of improving this beautiful BlackBox we all love and want to see improved.

                    Personal opinion on seeing all these bugs ironed out, and slew of far reaching abilities added in could make this original BlackBox, and company 1010music legendary. If I experience, as a customer, a hardcore effort of improving and implementing for the next two years I will be sending in my money in advance for the version 2.0.

                    That will be some sight to see!

                    Is there currently a non-employee moderator or two helping the team with some of these forums tasks? Rallying votes for features, writing or videoing supplemental how-to’s, etc? other than the threads already in existence. I see some very talented and creative people here, maybe they can help in a more official capacity if it lowers the workload?

                    just some thoughts. I am so far happy with my BalckBox but would be ecstatic if it ended up being even more versatile and polished.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Suspect Frequencies View Post

                      Personal opinion on seeing all these bugs ironed out,
                      Yeah me too, but people have a different view on many operational things and consider an approach as a bug(program change on only pads midi channel) while others think of it as normal operation(myself speaking here).That's one reason why a poll is needed in some things.
                      Blackbox has a lot of room for improvement to be on par with other modern software and hardware. The developers have to listen to the user community and pick the right direction from them with regard to where they should be heading to. In a great extent this is already happening as we can see by Aaron and Christine's participation in the forum. However as I said before, various polls would be very helpful for the users and the developers too.
                      Have a look at an iPad app called patchbase. They have a permanent poll where you can vote which is the next synth you want to be included inside their program. Everyone is happy thee since there is transparency to where the application is heading too.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Just saw on facebook, that Behringer just started using a public trello board for their X32 development to get customers informed and involved:
                        https://trello.com/b/Pky6BO3J?fbclid...GI0s3FWoxzqhfw

                        I'm very curious how that'll work out ...

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X