Sync problem between Keystep Pro and Blackbox

[steeldust]

Hi,

I use the Arturia Keystep Pro as master clock. The Blackbox is clocked by MIDI. Most of the time, when I press start on the KSP, the Blackbox runs in half tempo! A Bluebox, which is also connected via MIDI, runs in the correct tempo. Then I press stop and play on the KSP, usually then the Blackbox runs in full tempo. But this is very annoying.

I'm using the KSP as master clock for a long time now and never had any issues like that with other gear. So I guess the problem is being caused by the Blackbox.

In the Blackboxes TOOLS / Clock settings you can set up a clock mode. e.g. 4 PPQ. I guess this is only relevant when using the clock port instead of MIDI, right?

In order to fix this sync issue, is it worth a try to connect the KSPs CLOCK OUT to the Blackboxes CLOCK IN? Which of the Blackbox PPQ modes would you recommend in this case? The KSP is capable of most of them.

Thanks you for helping!

[steeldust]

Nobody any idea? Should I send the unit back?

[jgartner]

I had issues when connecting clock in and out and MIDI. Clock signal goes over both so things get confused if both are connected. I also had to change the dip switches on the KS to get more what I expected. The transport controls seem to me to be dependent on which device is the master clock. Not sure if this is relevant to you, but it required some tweaking to get expected behaviors.

[cdbarbuto]

Hi,

I use the Arturia Keystep Pro as master clock. The Blackbox is clocked by MIDI. Most of the time, when I press start on the KSP, the Blackbox runs in half tempo! A Bluebox, which is also connected via MIDI, runs in the correct tempo. Then I press stop and play on the KSP, usually then the Blackbox runs in full tempo. But this is very annoying.

I'm using the KSP as master clock for a long time now and never had any issues like that with other gear. So I guess the problem is being caused by the Blackbox.

In the Blackboxes TOOLS / Clock settings you can set up a clock mode. e.g. 4 PPQ. I guess this is only relevant when using the clock port instead of MIDI, right?

In order to fix this sync issue, is it worth a try to connect the KSPs CLOCK OUT to the Blackboxes CLOCK IN? Which of the Blackbox PPQ modes would you recommend in this case? The KSP is capable of most of them.

Thanks you for helping!

Im experiencing the same issue.
Using 1.7 fw

[mmediacy]

I'm having the exact same issue while using the Blackbox slaved to the Deluge (Master), connected via the Retrokits RK006. As steeldust describes, about 50% of the time, the Blackbox starts to play in half-tempo to the Master Clock. In order to reset this, I have to stop the Deluge and start again - then the Blackbox usually plays in the correct tempo. I'm on Firmware 2.0.5.

[steeldust]

I am on the lastest firmware. Meanwhile I also tried to use the clock ports via stereo jack cable instead with even more frustrating results.

[steeldust]

Could anyone from 1010 maybe please tell me what's going on? Or do they not read the posts here? I mean especially the issue with the Blackbox running in half tempo when the clock comes via Midi/TRS. This is not like it should be.

[Lucas]

steeldust EDIT: I'm investigating Keystep & Blackbox midi sync right now.

[Lucas]

Unfortunately I don't have a Keystep Pro at my disposal but I do have a Keystep & Keystep 37. My setup works as expected, I have dip switches set to internal clock on the Keystep, MIDI out into TRS MIDI on the Blackbox. Then under tools ClockSource: MIDI Port. Transport plays my sequence at expected speed.

You may have a MIDI loop problem, do you have other gear feeding into the Keystep?

[Steve]

I do have a KSP and a few blackbox/bluebox. KSP works as expected on my end with all of my devices. Which firmware version (as a number) are you using on the blackbox and KSP? I would check that your KSP is using the latest firmware (2.0.1 build 989 on mine) there were MIDI issues fixed and some of those were related to sync. What else is connected to/from MIDI on both devices? As Lucas mentioned, you may be experiencing a loop.

PPQ is related to the analog clock input and any format that matches the options in the blackbox will work.

[steeldust]

I found somethng out. I have a AKAI MPD218 Midi Controller plugged into the Blackboxes USB port, and this "half tempo" bug only does happen when the Midi Controller is connected. To get rid of the "half tempo" the Blackbox must be powered on without the Akai connected. This of course explains why only some users report this bug. It also explains why my Bluebox is not affected, because I have no gear plugged into the Blueboxes USB port. I have the ClockSource setting of the Blackbox on "MIDI Port", plus the Akai Controller is not capable of sending clock, so I see no reason, why the connected Akai Controller has an impact on the clock comming from the KSP. This must be some weired coding. Can somebody from 1010 please explain this? On the one hand I am curious about how this might be possible, on the other hand I'd really like to use a pad-controller with the Blackbox.

I seems that the USB-Midi code is somewhat messed in general, because when I connect the KSP via USB-Midi and set the Blackboxes ClockSource to "USB Port", then unter certain circumstances (or just after a while, not sure) the Blackbox loses Clock an stops reacting to the Start-Signal until the USB cable on either device is being replugged. The best that works for me is to leave the USB port empty.

[Suspect Frequencies]

I have been experiencing the same half tempo start. BlackBox is newest firmware 2.0.5, currently taking 5 pin midi in from Ableton Live 11.1 with the same behavior.
BlackBox set to MIDI IN, press play in Ableton and it starts at half or slowed tempo. Press stop then play again and the BB plays at correct tempo.

Update - I did some experimenting and if I stop play, then immediately start again, it plays the second time correctly. If I start (at slow speed) the first time then stop, and wait 10 or more seconds before hitting play the second time the problem remains.

Addl. Update - If I do the double start from the DAW, which plays the correct tempo, then stop, the problem comes back after 10+ seconds of idle time. In addition, pressing PLAY on the BlackBox itself always plays the correct tempo.

[Steve]

Thanks for your patience - and details. I can see what you are seeing.

[mmediacy]

I did some more experimenting on my end, trying to figure this out.

I have the Blackbox MIDI-slaved to the Deluge, connected with a DIN-MIDI to TRS-MIDI Type B cable, both running the latest firmware (Blackbox 2.0.5, Deluge 3.1.5). No other MIDI-Devices are connected to either machine.

When I first hit "Play" on the Deluge, the Blackbox plays along at about 1/4 the speed of the MIDI clock.
When I hit "Stop" and then "Play" again WITHIN EXACTLY 5 SECONDS, Blackbox syncs correctly to the Clock.
However, after 5 seconds the same initial 1/4-speed problem occurs.
This happens everytime.

I tried using different presets on the Blackbox and the Deluge, different DIN-MDI-to-TRS-B cables, 4 different USB-powercables for the Blackbox, with or without a controller attached to the USB-Host Port of the Blackbox. Instead of connecting the Deluge directly, I also tried to connect the Blackbox via different MIDI-Hubs (RK006 and MRCC).
But the problem always remains.

However - I do NOT have this problem with the Bluebox, where the MIDI Clock sync works as expected.

Steve - Do you have any idea what else I can try out to solve this? Do you need additional information ?

[Steve]

I have also experienced this. Would you mind sending a short video of your setup, settings, and connections? When I experienced this, I attributed it to a MIDI loop (I was testing something else) but maybe there is more to it. thanks

[mmediacy]

Hello Steve

Unfortunately I'm not able to attach the video to this post because the filesize is above the max limit allowed (and I have no way of exporting it any smaller). I can try sending it via email but I don't have your address.

[Steve]

best to upload to youtube and send the link. [email protected]

[mmediacy]

Steve Youtube is not possible since I don't do Social Media. However, I sent you a link to the video via WeTransfer.

[Steve]

I don't see it.