blackbox 3.0 beta feedback (current version is 2.9.1)

[slowdp]

Trying out the newest firmware 2.9 out on a backup card and so far seems the problem for me is that most of my old presets used sequences that triggered multiple pads which were set up as multi-sample slices, so as keys to strike different pitches on samples. The update now maps those sequences to one pad only? Which means i'm losing a bunch of sequences. Not sure how this new firmware is choosing which pad/key sequence to maintain per sequence.

This is going to be a huge issue for me for continuing work on old presets, now i regret making such complicated multi-pad/multi-sample sequences! I do think this new workflow would make more sense now that we have multiple options per sequence bank..

so I can see how going forwards this would be cool but dilemma for me now is how to salvage my old presets. May just go back a firmware and use the new one only for new projects. To map properly to the new firmware, each sequence must only be triggering one sample pad only?

Also, seems to still be the case that when you are in a sequence, and you change the selection from keys to pads or midi or whatever, it erases all the data. No undo option?

[Christine]

We want to make it easier to carry your old presets forward. If broke out your sequences so that the parts from multiple sequences that pointed at Pad A were all added as different layers to one or more sequences as needed, and then the Pad B parts went to pattern layers in a different sequence, would that work for you? How many multi-pad sequences do you have in a preset? How many pads does each of those point at? Would there be room enough to break all of those out as described?

[slowdp]

Thanks Christime! Yes, that'd be a helpful approach to getting old presets to work. Multi-pad sequences was my default approach to working with the Blackbox for a while, on average each would point to about 3-6 pads. I would fill up pads way faster than I'd fill up sequences with this approach, so I believe breaking it out in the way you describe into the new sequence organization should at least get these presets working. Maybe a bit difficult tracking them - i've wanted the ability to 'label' sequences, but that's for the ever-growing wish list . I'm also going back into my old ones and slowly re-working a couple of them to make it easier to latch to the new setup and taking notes of how they are set up.

The bigger challenge for me with new projects will be limiting the number of 'slicer' pads I use for chromatic sequences in the key-setting that need to be played simultaneously, since that would require using up an entire sequence pad for each sliced-chromatic sample pad. I've adapted my approach a bit already, making each sequence pad by default 'point' at the same spatially-located sample pad.

thanks for your efforts

[upwardspiral]

For me it's the other way around - I used multiple sequences for the same PAD. Now in 2.91. they are merged together. For example I composed bass, chords and melody with the same sample. Now these different parts are overlapping in the same sequence and not seperate as before.

[madhubani]

I repeat again. can't download firmware 2.0 from that link, there are other versions available, but 2.0… is not there! I want first a working link to firmware 2.0 that was installed on my blackbox when I bought it, and then your answer to the question “why is firmware 2.0 not available in the firmware history today”. If someone else besides you lays out 2.0 for download, then this will be a violation of the rights of the manufacturer, and now this is just a violation of the rights of the consumer.?

[madhubani]

All firmware 2.0 ... for some reason removed. There is no version 2.0.E or version 2.0.5 and there is no link to 2.0.0 that was on my device when I bought it. And why should I write to you so much? for what reason, none of the firmware from those that start with "2.0 ..." is not freely available for download even for registered users? Maybe you are hiding something? If not, post them for download!

[blobby]

<post removed>

[Suspect Frequencies]

I think they are only hiding it from you. I think it’s a grand conspiracy. I just downloaded 2.0. Works a treat. It a real 2.0 party over here.

[slowdp]

had a chance to play around with the new features on a new track. this is pretty phenomenal and easy to use, song mode and sequencing work together. makes a lot of sense.

what I don't agree with is being unable to store multiple sequences mapping to different sample pads on one 'sequence pad' layer (say layer A): that function has been replaced with the ability for that particular sequence to map to any sample pad in the top right window. I actually think that now with the layers - you can just as well copy a sequence over in to another 'sequence pad' with a free layer, to assign to a chosen pad. i'm not sure that dancing around the pads with the sequence is enough of a use to lose the tremendous functionality that previously existed: being able to trigger multiple different sequences, going to different sample pads, is a very crucial and useful feature. and while i get that you can now achieve a similar thing by having multiple sequence pads triggered at once in a particular 'scene' in the song section, it's not as flexible and immediate.

hopefully others agree, would love to have that function restored.. and it would help me make use of my dear old presets where i've taken the time creating complex different sequences to multiple-sample pads on one 'sequence pad'. as of now, those seem to get lost in the update.

but thank you all for this tremendous well thought out update, happy holidays!

[slowdp]

to Georges:

Previously I'd use one sequence pad to hold multiple different sequences (with the key setting) going to different sample pads. Simple example: kick, hi hat and snare on 3 separate sample pads being sequenced from the same sequence pad. I'd use the key setting so I can change pitch across the sequence. Or it'd be a multi-sample with splits. Or bass/melodic samples spread across a bunch of pads. Point is you could use each sequence pad to hold multiple sequences going to different pads in the 'key' setting.

With the new update, that's no longer possible. You can still use the 'pad' setting but that means you can't play multiple sample pads chromatically from that one sequence slot. For any chromatic sequence, any one sequence pad can only trigger one pad at a time now.

So while you get the 4 'layers', to me this feels like a subtraction of sequence flexibility. Previously one sequence pad could have a different sequence for each of the 16 samples, all chromatically! Maybe not many others have been working this way I don't know.

[Georges]

Thank you for clarifying. I tend to agree that removing flexibility this way (after it has been there) is a real bummer.

[focal sounds]

completely agree.

[manu_controvento]

Hi
If not already planned, I'd really like a midi-linked scene trigger mode, so having a kind of midi learn also to launch scenes from a controller
thanks!

[manu_controvento]

Ok, so it's from note 12 to 48 ? on pads channel
Or if not, which is the latest note for scenes?

[Aaron]

I mean on the MIDI Pads channel for the entire box as configured in the TOOLS menu. Look for the MIDI In tab.

[manu_controvento]

It would be nice having the possibility to get midi data also as CC and not only notes, to trigger scenes.
Because I have a bounch of buttons which are unemployed on my controller (switches) that I'd like to use to change scene. I can set them working on same channel of pads and I can assign them the notes I want, but they are codified as CC and not as notes. And BB at the moment doesn't realize I pressed them. It's a pity! Is it possible to get also CC events to change scenes?

[manonthelivingroad]

reporting this bug, that has been sometime ago:


-Preset A (or song A)
-Preset B (or song B)

on Preset A you press play, song finishes up, play button is still running, then you load Preset B, sometimes it loads and reproduces the song as intended, sometimes it won't reproduce at all, so you have to press "play" again

what's the idea, to play song after song, without having to press "play" or "stop+play" again, it should reproduce automatically as soon you load the next song, so you can avoid long gaps between songs

with 2.9.1 it's far more stable, but the issue still exists sometimes

hope feedback is usefull

[madhubani]

I see a lot of admins here :-) blobby, who are you and why post here a link to download firmware 2.0.E which is visible even to non-registered users? Mr. blobby Tell me where you got this link from and in which of these topics it is located.

[Aaron]

Please stay on topic. This thread is for 3.0 feedback.

[minimal.camera]

I'm reading through the beta 3.0 quickstart guide, and I've updated to 2.9.1. I'm trying to understand if a workflow I've leaned on in the past is still possible. I would call this the 'midi router' functionality.

I've got a MIDI controller that has USB port only. Blackbox handles this just fine via the USB device port, and acts as the USB host. This is great.
Now I want to use that USB-only MIDI controller to control a downstream synth that does not have USB host capabilities. So I want to use the drum pads on the LPD8 to play the synth. Synth is plugged in via TRS type B to 5 PIN MIDI cable.

In the past, what I would do is pick an empty pad, and load up a file I made that is simply one second of silence named MIDI.wav. This is mostly a visual reminder of how I'm using that pad, as a MIDI passthrough, and that there's no audio on that pad. Then in the pad config I would set the MIDI IN to the MIDI controller channel (let's say channel 1), and the MIDI OUT to the synth channel (let's say channel 10). The Blackbox was therefore acting as a MIDI router, converting incoming MIDI data received via USB on channel 1, to outgoing MIDI data sent out via TRS MIDI on channel 10. It worked great.

Now I'm reading:
"All MIDI out is sent from a Sequence."

"Pads no longer have a MIDI out channel. If you want to play an external MIDI device in synch with a pad, create a Keys sequence, map it to that pad, and set the MIDI out for the sequence."

So just based on that, it seems the MIDI routing workflow won't work anymore. But perhaps there's a way to do with with the new MIDI sequence functionality? I don't want to use the Blackbox sequencer for this, I just want to be able to live play the downstream synth, or play into the downstream synth's sequencer.

I'll play around with it and see if I can find a new workflow.

[Christine]

You can set up a MIDI Sequence to do this. On the tools page, set the MIDI Seq channel to match the USB MIDI controller.
Create a sequence in MIDI Mode. Set the MIDI Out channel to match the device you want to control via TRS. Select the sequence and play on the MIDI controller and the synth will play.

[Christine]

I just had a chat with the team. If we gave you a MIDI Through Mode, where all MIDI in from either TRS or USB Device was passed through to TRS MIDI out, would that address your concerns? To be clear, if MIDI Through mode was enabled, the MIDI out from sequences would not go out.

[madhubani]

<Post removed>

[blobby]

just a +1 thank you for the new version, it's fixed a lot of problems for me and the new style is a step in the right direction.

[madhubani]

it seems that I am in contact here with some kind of bots who are fans of the genius of 1010 and not with real users of their products. It's strange why until now the administration of the forum has not fulfilled my request and has not placed the links where they should be, but instead they strangely dubbed me here with the crazy one!?

[jayneural]

Are we bots ? No
Are we fans of the genius 1010 & God Aaron ? Yes
\o\ \O/ IOI \O/ /o/ Join us !

[minimal.camera]

You are spamming this thread with a request that has been answered multiple times. The version 2.0.0 firmware that you are looking for is in same place it has always been, it hasn't been removed. Blackbox Firmware Downloads > beta 1.9 beta > scroll to the bottom > the link to download 2.0.0 is there.

Edit: OK, I stand corrected. You are right, that 2.0.0 link takes you to the 2.1.5 thread. So it does seem that 2.0.0 isn't available for download anymore, or at least not in an easy to find place. I suggest you use 2.1.5? It contains bug fixes, so its generally a good idea to be on the latest stable firmware.

I'm enjoying this new 2.9.1 beta firmware, its fun to explore, even if not 100% production ready. That's the whole point of beta firmware, and I really appreciate that Aaron and the 1010 team are upfront about that, they aren't foisting incomplete firmware on us as 'production ready' like so many other companies do.

[Suspect Frequencies]

Bot#736282 reporting for bot duties.

How may my artificial intelligence assist your organic meat suit today?

[softroom]

I quite like the philosophy of the new song mode, not sure I'll use it extensively but as a quick way of noting down the samples that play well together it works nicely. Cheers!

An idea occurred to me just now. Wouldn't it be lovely if you could, from the main PADS screen, directly create a new song scene based on what is currently playing? Suppose you held down PADS then hit SONG - hey presto a new scene. Extra points would be awarded if that new scene could replicate/capture the relative positions of all samples playing...

[neilstapleton]

Agreed, like that idea, would really improve the creation of an initial sketched out arrangement

[Christine]

We have something close to that. If you go to the Song page, and touch edit then snap, it will grab all of the playing pads and sequences into the selected song scene. Doing it on this page allows you to make sure you know which scene will capture the snapshot.

[softroom]

I'll give that a try thanks.
BTW I am keen to use this new version as it seems not to have the 'error with recording' issue I've experienced regularly with 2.1.5, at least in the brief time I've used it.

[byrdinbbylon]

I guess I'm half human, half robot, as 1010music generally puts out cool updates, but not everything works perfect in beta updates.

On a serious note, I played around in 2.9.1.

Some issues I noticed in the prior beta were resolved, namely when switching between a sequence A, B, C, and D, it now seems to wait and switch at the correct time. Song mode itself seemed to operate as it should also.

There are still a couple core issues that make it yet unusable for my use cases.

Perhaps I'm missing a setting, so that's possible.

Here was my test use case.

I had 2 pads that contained clips (one a melodic and one a drum loop).
They are 4 bars long each.

If I want to record them into a sequence, I make sure SONG mode is off and go to a sequence.
The sequence records correctly, if I set the sequence A to PAD and set step length to 4 bars and step count to 1.
In that scenario, I click play+record, and during the 1 bar lead in I arm the 2 clips.

However, at times I prefer not to use the step length of the entire loop.
Often I'll set the step length to 1 bar and just have the step count be how many bars the loop is.
I do this mainly to see the progress bar below the sequence move.

So when I set the step length to 1 bar and step count to 4, it has a bug.

I press play+record and during the 1 bar lead in I arm the 2 clips.
They start playing at the first bar and seem okay for 3 bars.
Then, the loops restart at the beginning of the 4th bar.
As for the recorded sequence, it only has the pads starting at the beginning of the 4th bar, with no playing on bars 1-3.

The other bug is actually worse, in that I don't know a work-around.
I'm trying to record a multi-sample instrument I have on a pad to a sequence using the KEYS screen to enter notes.
I go to the sequence and set it to KEYS and have step length of 1/16 and step count of 64 (to record 4 bars).
The sequence A is highlighted and has the white line around so I know it's active.

I go to the main screen and select that pad and go into the KEYS screen.
I press play+record and after the lead in I start entering notes.
The first issue is that the sequence never stops. It just keeps seeming like it's recording with the metronome playing and play+record lit up.
However, I never hear after the 4th bar it looping back to play prior notes entered..
When I manually stop it and go to the sequence, no notes show to have been recorded.

All of this is happening with new presets created and not using a previous preset.

Please fix these 2 issues to make an otherwise cool update functional.
I'm just swapping cards to use the old prod release in the meantime.

Thanks again for working on it.

[byrdinbbylon]

Second test was a failure. I still can't sequence my multi-sample to save my life.

I'm getting a sequence set to correct steps and length.
I set it to KEYS on the piano roll screen.
I press the KEYS button. When I clicked the grid on the upper left, the only time it plays my sound is if I have SEQ off and a square selected where I have the sound loaded. If I change to SEQ, no sound plays upon key touching. Whether SEQ is on or off, it never stops after the length of the sequence and the record mode stays on until I manually stop it. I tried turning SONG mode off (which stopped my clips playing) and still tried recording, but same issues and nothing registered.

Maybe I'll try to capture a video to show.

[byrdinbbylon]

Okay, so I got a partial success on the multi-sample sequencing part. Here's what I found.

For it to work, I can't have it in SONG mode, as if in that mode, once I have SEQ selected on the KEYS screen, no sounds play.

If SONG mode is off, to get sounds to play and record, on the sequence piano roll screen, I had to select the pad with the multi-sample in the upper right grid, and have it in KEYS mode of course. In that scenario, I could hear notes as I play, they would record into the sequence and loop to play back after.

The only remaining issue has to do with that old issue of armed clips not respecting the lead in time. Since I can't sequence in using SONG mode, the solution I found with item one becomes irrelevant. In order to hear my played clips in Sequence mode so that I can play over them with my multi-sample, I have to just arm the clips. If I do that, they begin playing before the lead in time of my sequence I'm recording. The only way around that is to sequence the clips so they wait until after the lead in time, which is what item one was supposed to do away with.

Conclusion: if we can tweak the code to allow the option for armed clips to wait on lead in time, I'd be golden (as would others recording in loops of live instrument playing). The other solution would be to allow the SEQ recording on the KEYS screen to work while in SONG mode, as the lead in time is respected there.

The work-around to this seems to be turning off lead in and recording the sequence on the 2nd pass through. That might be tedious on longer sequences though.

[Christine]

RE: The main post:
We are not respecting the lead in time for recording in 2.9.1. I think that is part of what is causing the trigger at bar 3. We know this is a bug and need to fix it.
There is also a known bug that if you record a sequence while in song mode, it won't loop and play the sequence as it should.
There is another bug with notes recorded into sequences via MIDI are not displayed in the sequence, but they are actually there.