Please add more than just 16 sequences

[NoParades]

The constrains depends from the style of music. For most beat making; 8-16 patterns are plenty; but if you work on other genres, you will end up having more variations, especially if you use different instruments (some of my compositions have 40-50 instruments easily, and that's not even fully orchestrated). I could see a step forward if there is a way to automate pads mute; so at that point I don't see a sequence as one block that contains all my instruments that I want to play at that time, but I have the ability to design each sequence with the feature of being able to mute and unmute pads while the pattern runs; which is equivalent to make X sequences for the variations

As far as workflow; does it bother you to have extra pages that you can ignore? If you are OK with 16 pages you will never know that there are more; so I don't really see a problem with the workflow. Unless you are forced to see all the extra sequences (which won't happen on such small screen), you can continue to work as now, and not even think about diluting your workflow.

no, obviously I don't have any issue with extra screens of sequences I don't need, that'd be ridiculous. My point was if effort is being spent on BB's various upgrade options, and CPU availability is a concern on the dev side, I'd rather have the sequences/pads that are already available be fleshed out to their fullest potential instead of left as-is in favor of more of the same. I definitely don't have 40-50 instruments going at once, usually 6-8 of the pads are playing loops or pitched samples that are sequenced, a couple are controlling external synths, and maybe 4 are doing rhythmic/percussion things. I definitely strive to use BB as a central control center of a live rig, so having some things that improve that specific workflow are more important to me than additional sequences, no harm no foul.

If the 1010 team can make more sequences happen, awesome. I just hope it doesn't happen at the detriment of other options (more MIDI assignable parameters, UI reflecting incoming changes, maybe even some internal modulation) if CPU is the main variable.

[Villainmedia]

+1 Hell yes! Please for the love of delia Derbyshire make this possible!

I’m liking your post just because of your icon. Huge Lynch fan here!!

[pallozza]

just for a differing opinion, if it's a CPU resource allocation issue between adding more sequences versus having the UI reflect midi input on assignable parameters or other things "missing" (I use this term VERY loosely) I'd prefer the original 16 be fully bolstered. There is SO much variation to be made within each sequence already, especially with the new probability and off-grid options. I have yet to have a scenario where I needed more than the 16 available personally, but I can absolutely understand how more could be utilized.

Every device available has limitations, which get defined by all sorts of reasons/causes. BlackBox to me has always felt like the workflow revolves around that 16 position "launcher", both of sequences and pads. Adding another page or pages of these would dilute that workflow, and if the added tracks of sequencing are at the expense of fleshing out the existing environment, it just doesn't feel worth it.

The constrains depends from the style of music. For most beat making; 8-16 patterns are plenty; but if you work on other genres, you will end up having more variations, especially if you use different instruments (some of my compositions have 40-50 instruments easily, and that's not even fully orchestrated). I could see a step forward if there is a way to automate pads mute; so at that point I don't see a sequence as one block that contains all my instruments that I want to play at that time, but I have the ability to design each sequence with the feature of being able to mute and unmute pads while the pattern runs; which is equivalent to make X sequences for the variations

As far as workflow; does it bother you to have extra pages that you can ignore? If you are OK with 16 pages you will never know that there are more; so I don't really see a problem with the workflow. Unless you are forced to see all the extra sequences (which won't happen on such small screen), you can continue to work as now, and not even think about diluting your workflow.

[NoParades]

just for a differing opinion, if it's a CPU resource allocation issue between adding more sequences versus having the UI reflect midi input on assignable parameters or other things "missing" (I use this term VERY loosely) I'd prefer the original 16 be fully bolstered. There is SO much variation to be made within each sequence already, especially with the new probability and off-grid options. I have yet to have a scenario where I needed more than the 16 available personally, but I can absolutely understand how more could be utilized.

Every device available has limitations, which get defined by all sorts of reasons/causes. BlackBox to me has always felt like the workflow revolves around that 16 position "launcher", both of sequences and pads. Adding another page or pages of these would dilute that workflow, and if the added tracks of sequencing are at the expense of fleshing out the existing environment, it just doesn't feel worth it.

[pallozza]

Thanks for the clarification neilstapleton. I get your comment now.

From my perspective; a sequence is a set of instructions for each of my synths; since each pad is a synth for me (or a channel for a multi-timbral synth, in the case of a synth with 16 channels), I favor having more sequences, since I can create more variations. If I lose pads, that is OK; I understand the limitations of the device, and 16 pads is OK for me.

I like your idea of adding more sequences for midi only; but that would double the CPU load though; since you have not only the 16 pads for midi but the 16 pads for [whatever you may add in it]; and in that case I agree that it would be heavy on the system.From my perspective I wish the Blackbox was more like the Pyramid or the Deluge; with a sequencer that would allow you to get some serious power as far as number of tracks and length of patterns. For 100 dollars more you can get a MPC One which in terms of features and sequencer capabilities, is quite a step up, at the cost of losing portability and ease of use.

And Georges I am aware that the sequences do play simultaneously; I just don't use the BB in that way You have just 16 sequences; if you start to add an instrument or 2 per sequence; you end up with very limited number of variations, and that is crippling for me (pretty sure others thrive with deprivation and being forced to use limited resources; I am just not like that, and what I make is rubbish if I work in such conditions )

[neilstapleton]

Okay pallozza. Allow me to explain what I mean in a little more detail. At the moment each sequence has to be associated with a Pad, so if you want to sequence an external midi synth you effectively loose the use of one of the 16 pads. What you are asking for if more sequences, so without any other changes to the why things work at present, I was presuming that would also require another 16 pads, which would by default be fully functional sample pads.

My suggestion was to leave the current configuration or sequences to pad the same, but add an additional 16 sequences dedicated only to external midi. My presumption (which I admit may be wrong) is that the cpu cost of a sequencing and playing back samples would be greater than for just sequencing external midi alone.

So if more than 16 pads/sequencer tracks isn't possible, maybe my suggestion is more achievable.

Can anyone explain the Pads to Sequences relationship better than me.... because it's this that is at the centre of my point really and I'm not doing a good job of explaining it. An I right that is you sequence external gear you loose the use of a pad?

[neilstapleton]

Sorry my bad, the other one was a little different from this... I retract this

[Georges]

some example use cases:
* split your sequences by function (rhythm section, lead, vocals, pads, etc.) rather than by song section,
* split the rhythm section into components: bass, hihats, kick drum and snare, so that you can create variety in the rhythm section and/or mix them separately. Eg you would want your kick drum and bass line to have the same punch.

Obviously, you are right about the processing limit due to polyphony. There are things one cannot change about the blackbox. I do not think that users want to play 32 seqs at the same time, rather than to have more variety in the sequences.

[Georges]

Personally, as a non-user of the specific drum sequences use case, I find the more generic solution of adding a second page with 16 seqs pads more practical - overloading the seqs hard button to toggle between both pages would be simple enough.

Though a way to assign optional seqs names and then to toggle between seqs names and mini steps preview would be a great addition for keeping seqs organised.

[Georges]

you are missing out: sequences do play simultaneously

[Georges]

could you please provide the link?

[pallozza]

If add more sequences for samples is a concern re. processing power etc. Then maybe add an additional 16 that can only be used for external midi. If you limited the first 16 to internal samples and the second to external midi only, that would also clarify the whole issue of needing an empty pad to sequence external midi thing, and free up pads.

I really want the BB to be the brain of my setup, and this would make that possible.

Thoughts

The processing power is not involved in having more sequences.

You can only have one sequence playing at time; you can chain as many sequences as you want; but they do not play concurrently; unless I am missing something. Why would you play multiple sequences at the same time? Maybe I used the Blackbox in the wrong way all this time?

My original post is to have more than 16 sequences, as clearly stated; so why are we talking about more than 16 pads and more samples playing concurrently?
Also with other sequencers; you are limited by the amount of midi data, not by the amount of samples; if you use the Blackbox as sequencer, you should be concerned mostly about the number of midi events that run concurrently, which is what should affect the CPU. Or am I missing something?

[neilstapleton]

This is a duplicate, consider merging it with the other thread on this subject!

[neilstapleton]

If add more sequences for samples is a concern re. processing power etc. Then maybe add an additional 16 that can only be used for external midi. If you limited the first 16 to internal samples and the second to external midi only, that would also clarify the whole issue of needing an empty pad to sequence external midi thing, and free up pads.

I really want the BB to be the brain of my setup, and this would make that possible.

Thoughts

[jayneural]

I see a different way it could be done, than adding just another grid of 16 pads or re-arranging/resizing the grid.

It could be by adding a "drum kit" type of pad which would be nothing more than a page of UI that would let you select multiple samples for your drum kits. It would then work a bit like a multi-sample type of pad.

For each sample you would also select a "type of drum" field which will provide "Kick, snare, HH, other..." predefined labels. So then these labels will show-up on the SEQ screen when working on a drum kit type pad.

That would let you group all your drums into one pad and have the other 15 for other instruments, FX, vocals.

The MC-101 works a bit like that where "Drum tracks" can hold a full sample kit.