Looping missing features

[valeriodaniele]

Hi,

I recently submitted a post in Support section but, after a search in the forum, I discovered that my issues were not real issues…I was taking for granted some features that are actually not present in the software
And I also discovered that a lot of other users are asking for the same features...

So I try here, asking/hoping for them to be implemented…

• First of all, I’d need RecToPlay to work in every “length” condition, so in “Custom length” also… otherwise, for me, it’s very difficult to take advantage from the recently added Midi recording function.
• There should be a way to set most Pads’ parameters before starting recording. Beginning with Sample/Granular/Slicer modes and with all their key parameters, like Trigger/Toggle/Gate, Loop modes, LFO, Granular/Slicer settings and so on…
  So that loops could play (instantly) and already processed after rec. Unfortunately now this is impossible.
  A simple way for this could be that Pads could be able to remember ALL their parameters after deleting the wave file.

To be clear, I really love this box, and the way developers are working on it after years is uncommon and really precious.
Features I’m asking here could be - I think - a relevant part of BB development especially for LIVE use…
Just my two cents

Please let me know what you think.

Thanx in advance!
Valerio

[dertranb]

IF i understand you well (i hope so) i can tell, that in my understanding+practise of BB :

1/ yes it's true, no rec to play with custom. maybe it is because the "FIRST LOOP GIVES THE TEMPO" rule that is common to all looper (i'm using RC505 for years) can't be reproduce in BB, for BB could not guess tempo based on custom lenth sample. rec to play only work in none custom lenth, aka bar based lenth (since it is time based)

2/ well in my preset i have all pad's parameter set (whether it's a gran on channel X in reverse or a sample on channel y with lfo adressed on filter etc), and i do rec over theses pad, and they do keep their setting... in tools i think one should set rec config per PAD

[Georges]

ad 1) custom yields sample, fixed bar length yields clip, so the solution could be to extend the number of available fixed bar length steps, i.e to go beyond the 2^n rule for bar length steps: https://forum.1010music.com/forum/pr...instead-of-2-n

[valeriodaniele]

Thank you guys for answering

1. Ok, I understand the logic behind it... but the fact that we are forced to use fixed lengths remains an important limitation for a (pretty common, I think) style of working with loops (not necessarily in tempo, creating evolving and random soundscapes, ambient or drones) .
2. In addition to this, as Georges said, using bar or notes length yields CLIP mode necessarily... and this mode is not very tweakable as Granular or Slice. On the other hand, custom length yields Sample (or Gran or Slices if you set the mode BEFORE starting recording) but with two limitations: RecToPlay won't work and internal Gran or Slices or LFO parameters are not tweakable, completely unmovable before starting recording.

Please, forgive me if it sounds naive but, to solve this last problem, wouldn't be enough to modify the firmware so that Pads could be able to remember ALL their parameters after deleting the wave file ? Perhaps it's not so simple as it seems... eheheh

I think BB is just a small step back from becoming a really unique machine also in the field of creative looping. I really hope these limitations could be removed in the future

[Georges]

Are you talking about a live scenario? because mode can also be switched at will AFTER loading or recording any part, plus the respective mode settings do prevail even after switching modes. As a replacement to RecToPlay, you could check out sequences: see this topic, also this one and this one.

My suggestions are naturally not an answer to your feature request, but just a way of finding a solution while waiting for a future firmware version. Luckily, blackbox is already remarkably flexible, despite its (sometimes apparent) limitations.

[valeriodaniele]

Yes Georges, I was talking for sure about a live (with a large use of improvisation) scenario, forgive me if I probably was taking it for granted.
During instantaneous composition or improvisating you know that's crucial to keep hands off the machines as much as possible and...just play ...
I obviously know that AFTER recording modes are switchable and perfectly flexible And I already make extensive use of this opportunity in pre-production or post-production scenarios.
But live is another matter...you know

Anyway I'll certainly check your links/suggestions, thank you very much!
...and we certainly agree that BB is an incredibly flexible machine and extraordinarily rich in possibilities

[Georges]

I would not mind if the blackbox had more live features, under the condition that it would not come at a sacrifice of the off-line workflow, which has come a long way.

For your first feature request, I guess an additional parameter in the recording screen (eg pad mode: auto, sample, clip, granular, slicer, random) would do the trick.

[dertranb]

this afternoon i was blackboxing, once again, and i stumble upon (i forgot in fact) that rec to play was a global pref (in tools) but also in pad in rec menu. there is something i don't understand about it, but anyway i can't template only some pad to play after rec and some, NOT : again there is this probleme with the idea of pads having 1/their own peculiar settings as a TEMPLATE and 2/ keeping it, even after being recorded over, as a PRE PROGRAMMED SLOT. (my pad 1 is supposed to be a SLOT for 4 bar of newly recorded on the fly clip playing in loop but the pad 2 is supposed to be a newly record sample part of a drumkit, pad 3 is supposed to be a slot for a granular instrument, so slot 1 should be rectoplay, but not the slot 2 & 3 !)

also there is something else, in the same idea : the range of keyboard (and grid keyboard and in scale) will be the same for every pad, since i don"t use the intern seq, it's very frustrating to change each time the range of each pad according to my needs, since this pad need a C5 range, but this other is supposed to be played as a bass on C2 for exemple.... there is no problem when using midi keyboard, but sometimes i juste want to use the pad with my fingers...


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BUT in the other hand, i should say that this new WONDERFUL midi rec option is very smart (i love it !) and a big step, for me, in this idea of a sampler with slots, allowing me to sample on the fly, remplacing sample already triggered by external seq (from drumbrute or from midi looper) or creating on the fly a new instrument with sampling...

[valeriodaniele]

Yes,
we're here just for that: to add suggestions, ideas - peculiarities and extra-flexibility features - for an already rich and complex machine.
Everyone of us has its own style of composition => workflow => needs.
My post is here to kindly ask those two "additions/changes" to the software (without compromising any of its present characteristics), which - I think - could be very useful for those of us who work in live conditions with a large use of live sampling and improvisation.

[Kebap Benzin]

I also need this.
That Rec to play works with "custom" length too.
It is extremely common when making any sort of live, improvised, or jam situation to want to record loops without defining beforehand how long the loop will be.
Most loopers have this functionality and since BB now has the midi recording function, it would be very useful for many people.
There is a huge demographic that does live looping.

[valeriodaniele]

Thank you for supporting, Kebap!

[the.dirk]

as a live looper, i am going to lend my support to this thread, too... this feature is necessary!

just consider an everyday looper; these basic functions should be possible in the blackbox: start Rec > stop Rec (first loop sets standard loop length, begins looping); press Rec again on any existing loop (infinite overdub, adds to existing sample). etc.

[upwardspiral]

As I see it, the unit is not fit for live looping purposes because of several shortcomings. For example it introduces delays and unvoluntary fade-in / fade-out effects on recorded clips.

I explained some of this here:

https://forum.1010music.com/forum/products/blackbox/support-blackbox/29005-short-fade-in-prevents-gapless-looping-of-recordings

[Sunspots]

Live looper here. Starting to run into these limitations. Somehow while looking at the marketing I didn't realize these shortcomings for live looping. I'm using bitbox mk2 and another very important thing would be to be able to keep all pads in clip mode. It's annoying to need to go into each one everytime and redo the mode because it isn't global for some reason? When I'm jamming I don't need to deal with my sampler looper modes in any way. I want to hit the button and capture the loop and crossfade from live to loop without delay.

Also it doesn't seem to guess very well when the next beat is. Could be user error.

[Georges]

clip mode is used automatically as long as you don’t use custom bar length, at least on the blackbox

[stimming]

+1 from me