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  • Organization Optimation

    I think the next important step could be the organization of sets into folders by export.
    It is getting really hard to organize.


  • #2
    Agree! The abilty to save a project (preset and samples) together in a folder, like you can on an MPC, would be great for file management.

    Comment


    • alemass
      alemass commented
      Editing a comment
      I ve been asking for this for long.

    • underwood
      underwood commented
      Editing a comment
      ...and great for archive older projects.

    • Christine
      Christine commented
      Editing a comment
      Wish granted. Download 1.5.

  • #3
    Agree too! That would be great.

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    • #4
      Yeah. my root folder is becoming huge and very difficult to navigate. We should have the option to save our sample in whatever directory we like or have a consolidate option to save folders along with the preset but preferably not on the root folder . These folders should be saved in another folder residing in the root and named after something like "consolidated samples" or "preset samples".
      The root has to breathe a little, it's suffocating!!!

      Comment


      • #5
        Agree, it definitely becomes a problem at some point, especially when you want to reorganise your samples.

        Even if it takes a bit more space I think it's important to have an option to consolidate a project with all its source samples into a folder.

        I personally have put a Sandisk 400GB U1 sdcard into my BB and it has over 200GB of samples in it. The other 200GB being for projects or manual sampling.

        What would be nice is that any new saved sample defaults to be saved inside the active project's folder.

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        • #6
          Very good thread... hopefully the bb team will make an update to fix this…

          Comment


          • #7
            Agreed! Would be nice to be able to pick the directory to save in, or have it default to the project name or something.

            Comment


            • #8
              From my point of view with this,
              a better reverber and delay,a master volume instead of the useless compressor,the bb could be considered a finished product and probably the best sampler around.

              Comment


              • #9
                Let's talk about organizing files. If we give you the option to move all of the WAV files for a given Preset into a folder associated with that preset, you would break any other presets that also use that WAV file. Would you want to make a copy of that file in the preset specific folder? Then what happens when you tweak the loop points in that file? The changes won't be reflected in other presets. I don't see a good answer there.

                On the other hand, I can see the need to be able to move WAV files into folders. It may be challenging to create a good UI for this on such a small screen. But I'm willing to take on the challenge. The question then becomes how to handle the presets that use that sample? Should blackbox go find all the presets that use that file and remap them to the new directory location? Should this be optional?

                Could you tell me some more about the things you are trying to do when the file organization is a problem please? I recognize there's a problem, but I'm not entirely sure what you are trying to do when this problem occurs, so I'm not sure how to solve it. I see "organization of sets into folders by export" in the top of the thread. What do you mean by export here? Export to what? By what means? I hear you want to collect all the files for a preset in one folder. What is the purpose of doing that? What are you ultimately trying to do?

                Is the real problem that you can't figure out which WAV files are safe to delete? Is it that you can't find the WAV you want in a long list in the root folder?

                Comment


                • underwood
                  underwood commented
                  Editing a comment
                  An optional function to save the preset with a copy of all used samples in a preset specific folder, would help a lot. Like for archive a project or move it to an other sd-card.

                  Normal saving of preset in a default subfolder instead of root would be nice to. Same for recordings.

                • DeepDiveCorp.
                  DeepDiveCorp. commented
                  Editing a comment
                  ..the way I use the BB it would be fine to have the option to safe all data and samples that belong to a song/project into a separate folder (name like the project) so I can transfer all content of a song in one go wherever I like to. Give it to a music mate who might like to use things in ALive or using those samples in an MPC....
                  And just as an additional option would be fine that might even turn it into new project with an extra letter attached to the actual name for example. Cause diving into the root folder and searching for samples is a PITA and breaks any workflow and eats useless amounts of time. Especially when the BB is the main source or like in my case, I'm living of making music and that is time consuming in the first place. So any time saving option is very well received!

              • #10
                Damn, i wrote up a lot of ideas, but somehow this reply got crippled twice, even missed to exit my train ...
                Never happend before ... i will try again ;(

                So here I try again:

                Whats missing from my point:

                1) For Housekeeping (currently have to move SD to computer for that):
                a) Function to create a directory !
                b) Function to move/copy/paste sample(s) (Relinking in all psets ? Don't know, maybe a relocate function on the PAD for not found samples would do)

                2) For backup, consolidation
                a) save a project (preset and samples) together in a folder (good to secure finished projects)

                3) Storage location of new samples
                a) Would love to see new recordings go to a dedicated "New Recordings" folder so it doesn't hog the root and clash with the PSET files.
                (current tedious workaround is to SaveAs the new sample everytime and to delete the REC0000xx file in the root, but then at least a function to create a directory is really missing ...)
                b) Another problem is to cleanup all the unused recording takes ... but thats another issue

                4) PSET specific sample folder
                a) same name as the PSET (or even make a PSET a folder itself -> see pic)
                b) There could be an option upon saving a PSET, that new recordings that were made could automatically be move to the PSET folder
                Click image for larger version  Name:	folderstructure.jpg Views:	0 Size:	5.2 KB ID:	9375
                Last edited by Zapman; 12-18-2019, 11:34 PM.

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                • underwood
                  underwood commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Point 2 is most important.

                • chrislux
                  chrislux commented
                  Editing a comment
                  For me Point 3 is important. My whole Soundlibary is already organized into folders. So new Recordings should go into a new recording folder. Even if the folders would only be numbered first would work fine. By the way thanks for all the feedback here.

                • jayneural
                  jayneural commented
                  Editing a comment
                  It’s true that point 3 should be the priority, the « sample library » feature can be done later, as long as we can easily consolidate all the sounds of our PSETS in a folder and avoid loosing them while reorganizing our library.

              • #11
                I think the best way would be to consolidate copies of the sample as well as preset xml file/any other metadata file into one folder. Could be an option or could be the standard or even forced organization mode.

                In terms of general file structure, and so that the sdcard root is the cleanest possible I’d also suggest to organize in /Sample Library and /Presets folders.

                Having multiple copies is a non-issue as we have quite good amount of storage resources (like bigger/multiple sdcard options). Regarding start/end loop points I believe they are more of a project specific data. For files that have obvious start/end points or those which we have trimmed, there should remain the option to browse to /Library save them back there for future usage.

                The /Sample Library would include all shared sample directories of samples and the /Presets could include either copies of the samples in the library or their own samples. So we still should have the ability to import a sample from a project to another but it would then always be a copy of it when browsed from /Library or Presets in order not to create dependencies between projects and not losing files from the Library. By default I believe each preset should have its own folder inside /Presets even when still empty of samples.

                The « condolidate project » option (if it’s an option) would just gather copies of all needed files.

                In order to help with the transition from currently free structure, an option to relocalize an orphan/moved sample inside a preset would also be nice.

                In terms of UI, I see a lot of this happening in PSETS (like consolidate if it’s an option) and in PADS. If it’s chosen to force some organization/file consolidation (I believe it’s better), it will require way less UI related work. It will be just about creating default file management rules with current UI while still allowing free browsing and picking of samples.
                Last edited by jayneural; 02-10-2020, 08:24 AM.

                Comment


                • underwood
                  underwood commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Consolidate only as an optional feature.

              • #12
                For the most part I agree with what Zapman posted.
                I elaborate a bit my self too here.

                Originally posted by Christine View Post
                Let's talk about organizing files. If we give you the option to move all of the WAV files for a given Preset into a folder associated with that preset, you would break any other presets that also use that WAV file. Would you want to make a copy of that file in the preset specific folder? Then what happens when you tweak the loop points in that file? The changes won't be reflected in other presets. I don't see a good answer there.
                For me definitely a copy should made when you decide to perform a save as function to whatever directory you decide to save. I don't know what the correlation between the xml preset file and the waves attributes is. I expect when I perform a save as (copy) to a wave file connected to an xml preset, then the next time I load this preset, the wave file loads as intended for this preset. The old wave file that was loaded before the save as operation remains unchanged and connected correctly to whatever other presets. So I see no problem when you perfom a save as function since a new wave file is created. Now if I am careless and use this wave file in another preset and change its attributes then this new preset will take over the wavs attribute and will ruin the other preset. But that would be my fault I guess. So a save as option is a very safe method to keep everything in tact and wherever you like in order to be tidy and efficient.
                If there was a consolidate option then this would produce copies of all the samples being used in a new folder without affecting the existing ones. (same logic). By all means the folder connected with the preset should be nested in a folder which resides on the root called for example "preset folders. But please not in the root folder. Root folder has to be as minimal as possible. As zapman said a folder called new recordings inside the root would be ideal for saving all new recordings.
                A useful option would be during the consolidate function to have an option to delete the associated with the preset wave files that have been recorded and saved in the "new recordings" folder. But ONLY the new recorded files called rec00... and not existing samples from your library.


                Originally posted by Christine View Post
                On the other hand, I can see the need to be able to move WAV files into folders. It may be challenging to create a good UI for this on such a small screen. But I'm willing to take on the challenge. The question then becomes how to handle the presets that use that sample? Should blackbox go find all the presets that use that file and remap them to the new directory location? Should this be optional?
                I think the screen is big enough and with some minor button additions in the menu you can make a very beautiful system. Actually the save as is already there!!
                Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_3167.jpg Views:	0 Size:	1.41 MB ID:	9449
                However after we press the save as we should be presented again with directory navigation
                Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_3168 3.jpg Views:	0 Size:	746.9 KB ID:	9450
                Where the FILE PLAY LOAD buttons should be SET(folder location), NEW(folder) and DELETE(folder).
                And finally after that the keyboard screen to rename your file.
                In the PSET button you can add an option to the save as operation to have the consolidate feature.
                If you want to add a separate function that searches all presets using the samples and update them that wouldn't be a problem if it is optional.
                Originally posted by Christine View Post
                Could you tell me some more about the things you are trying to do when the file organization is a problem please? I recognize there's a problem, but I'm not entirely sure what you are trying to do when this problem occurs, so I'm not sure how to solve it. I see "organization of sets into folders by export" in the top of the thread. What do you mean by export here? Export to what? By what means? I hear you want to collect all the files for a preset in one folder. What is the purpose of doing that? What are you ultimately trying to do?

                Is the real problem that you can't figure out which WAV files are safe to delete? Is it that you can't find the WAV you want in a long list in the root folder?
                I don't really know what the problem of the guy is who started the thread. The problem as you say exists and considering what zap man says it's a real pita to take out your sd and go for the computer. Basic folder management should have been there by default.
                Think for example of multisampling. You can't do this on BBOX itself.You record 3 synth samples and you are obliged to go to the computer and make folder to put your multisample there. It is lame! I will never do it personally. You miss all the fun of doing on the spot.
                Another example someone wants to have his samples organised in a specific way . Folder for baseline. So you record a nice analog euro rack bassline and it ends up staying in your root folder and you actually forget it there for ever. It is simply not efficient not to be able to save your sample where you want to. Regarding the export, for me that I use ableton is not a problem there are the .als files. But for others the consolidate option would be really welcomed. For me, it is welcomed for organisational reasons and efficiency since with one action you can save all your samples where you want to.

                I hope you consider this and give us at least the basic folder management.
                Last edited by kraftf; 12-22-2019, 05:38 PM.

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                • #13
                  Yeah, storing samples together with the PSET via an explicit "consolidate"-option would be great. So the user can choose whether the sample is duplicated or not.

                  Comment


                  • underwood
                    underwood commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Fully agree!

                • #14
                  Regarding the issue on the loop points retention when duplicating a file from /Library to a project, here are the options I suggest :

                  - Keep track of the original file path in /Library inside the PSET and suggest to apply back to library when saving changes on loop points

                  - Provide a « sample prep » mode where we can open and edit the wav file loop points right in library. For cases we want to capitalize this prep work on multiple projects

                  - No user library (while keeping ability to browse file structure), use the MC-101 organization style. Everything being inside projects and ability to go dig into projects. Not ideal for categorizing samples though. This can partially solved through the addition of a tagging system to categorize the samples inside projects. That would also imply implementing browse through tag-based categories on sample open.

                  - A mix of the above.

                  Not any final solution here but I hope this gives some ideas.

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                  • #15
                    Thanks all for the feedback. This is good information.

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