Nanobox firmware compatibility between devices.

[xelwarto]

Wondering if the Lemondrop and Fireball firmware will be compatible between the Nanobox devices; similar to how the bitbox and fxbox firmware could be swapped. Would it be possible to run the Fireball firmware on a Lemondrop and vice-versa?

[Aaron]

Thanks for asking.

We've worked hard to make lemondrop and fireball be separate devices with different functionality and a completely different sound set. It is not currently possible to swap firmware.

[Champ007]

Could you explain this further for the noobs (like myself) out there?
I don't understand what 'different functionality' and 'sound sets' have to do with not being able to swap firmwares. Isn't the hardware completely the same?

[Aaron]

Could you explain this further for the noobs (like myself) out there?

Sure. The nanobox collection is a series of individual musical instruments, like the Teenage Engineering Pocket Operator line or the Korg Volca line. Each one has its own distinct flavor and functionality. If you are looking for a device that has lots of interchangeable apps to do music, we recommend you check out the iPhone or iPad.

[Champ007]

I don't know about the PO's but Volca's are clearly different in components right?
It seems you won't allow a firmware swap even though the hardware is the same?
I believe you have other products which do allow this so what's the difference here with the nanoboxes?
Again I'm a noob when it comes to this so my apologies if I look clueless.

[jayneural]

My understanding is the hardware inside is the same, but it’s up to the manufacturer to chose whether they want the firmware to be swapable.

Some of the Eurorack products from 1010music actually added this ability at a later stage of the product’s lifecycle. But we can’t blame 1010music for not wanting to do that on the tabletop products right now. No one ever complained about that to Teenage Engineering after all.

Maybe a good way to introduce that ability at some point while still providing an incentive for the user to buy both would be to allow cross-functionality between them such as chaining for more polyphony and more Fx layers. Or make them “pods” of a bigger product that provides sequencing and recording while powering them.

[xelwarto]

I assume you are referring to the pocket operators; last I checked you could not update the firmware on those devices ... or am I wrong?

[jayneural]

I don’t believe it’s technically impossible. If TE can upload a firmware in there, probably a user could as well, just like we can upload drum kits over the jack input.

But there is no documented way at least.

[xelwarto]

Thanks for the response Aaron, I understand and can appreciate the decision to keep them separate devices with different functionality. However, I am curious to know if someone was to "try" and load the Fireball firmware on a Lemondrop (not saying I am going to try this), what would happen? And I totally get it if the answer is don't try it, it will brick your device and void any warranty/support.

Thanks again, I think 1010 is making truly wonderful devices and I can not wait to get one of these.

[Steve]

The device will prompt you to insert a card with the proper firmware.

[pieter3d]

I understand the reasoning here and can appreciate that making money is a necessity, but I really don't see any other reason to not allow firmware swapping. Why beat around the bush? I'm not a fan of products with such artificial limitations (the same goes for smartphones/tablets that don't allow you to replace the battery...), but that's ok. Not everything has to be for me.

[fruitsnake]

Isn't it obvious? Clearly, a wavetable synth could never function properly if it was yellow, and likewise if a granular sampler were red, that's definitely not gonna work at all.

Come on guys, this is pretty basic stuff here.

[BeepBoop4Days]

I understand the companies position, and I'm not trolling. I'd really love to try the razzmatazz on my lemon drop. If I liked it, I'd buy another nanobox.

Hell, I'd consider buying one just to have a pink lemon drop.

I'm lucky I have a local synth shop.

[dysonant]

It is a bit of a shame that they will not allow this. The Lemon Drop is often out of stock, but the Fireball is not. Some would have bought a Fireball and loaded LemonDrop. It would balance out the clearly huge difference on demand. This is but one example of many positive reasons to allow firmware swapping, as shared by a few above.
- Hardware unavailability
- Consumer curiosity
- General kindness toward other humans
- Warmth, positivity and word of mouth marketing from a dedicated consumer base

Going by their lack of clarity in their response it is likely firmware swapping is possible and this is only a business decision. While some of you can understand why 1010 choose to do this, I do not understand it and in fact I suspect it is a blind attempt at increased profit. I suspect the decision was based on "feel" from prior experience with their eurorack line. In some way 1010 had a negative previous experience and decided this might be the better course of action. My question to 1010 is, is that true or did you do an actual fact based analysis of metrics that showed you would increase profit by making this decision? If not, it is an arbitrary choice not based in reality.

Of course, this is all conjecture and obviously designed to provoke some sort of honest and tangible response. I am in no way suggesting I am right, I also have not based my argument on facts or analytics and mostly just feel I am correct in thinking that profits would increase were firmware swapping allowed.

I only wrote this because it is what I believe and I actually like and care about 1010 as a company. I am invested in seeing that they have a successful future.

[Georges]

I think that 1010 is actually haunted by its own past since they once opened the gate of firmware swapping on some products and chose to close it for later products.

Take a look at some digital effects manufacturers and you will see that it is absolutely common for these manufacturers to recycle their proprietary hardware platform, with a few front-end label changes and without offering any firmware swapping to their users. So if you ask this from 1010music, then maybe you should also ask it from other manufacturers: e.g. UAD, Strymon, Eventide, Chase Bliss, Walrus, etc.

Perhaps, given their own past, a kind of missed marketing opportunity on 1010’s behalf was the absence of a bundle price, introductory or not and only for distribution through their own website, when lemondrop and fireball were released simultaneously.

[PetGerbil]

I can think of one very good reason not to allow firmware swapping. It would be financial suicide...
I got a blackbox last week( loving it btw.!) maybe now I might be in the market for a drum box. Or a granular synth something like a lemon drop or fireball.But wait! no need, I'll just download the new firmware into my blackbox. for free!!
Multiple lost sales. Everyone who has previously bought a 1010 device has suddenly got them all. The secondhand market is flooded with people selling off their no longer needed extra 1010 devices, which kills off a big chunk of the "buy new" market.

Also, with multiple devices, they can judge on where to focus resources by sales.

[WavyDavy1960]

It would be a nightmare for tech support, and the secondary market, if products labeled as one thing, actually had another product loaded in it.

[mrjayjayjay]

Judging how badly the red and pink already clash with each other, can you imagine how badly the pink razzmatazz software would clash inside a red fireball?