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Toolbox 2.0 feedback

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  • #76
    Thanks for making your priorities clear. It helps clarify what our next steps are. Thanks for your support.


    • #77
      To be honest i'm a little bit concerned to invest money into your company that after 6 months of purchasing 3 of your modules they have been abandoned , If that's the case ,why is V2 Toolbox still a Beta (with no more planned updates) and 3 years later you have only just released V2 bitboxes ?
      I'm the owner of 2x 6 month old "Brand new " V1 bitboxes which i love but the resale price for them now the v2 has been released has drop considerably and the toolbox ,even thou it's has some lovely functions .seems to be unusable with anything externally that has a sequencer built in .
      Why would you abandon a piece of hardware while you leave people with a beta firmware . ?
      These issues really are stopping me from purchasing your V2 or micro modules . £1500 spent and 6 months later the resale value has dropped to half that if i'm lucky , that's not enticing really .

      From now on i will be researching companies for a lot longer before spend such an amount of money on modules to be left in Beta or out of production . Not a wise investment per functionality and resale .
      Last edited by Filterfreak; 07-09-2020, 12:10 AM.


      • #78
        Just poking at the dead cat in the water...

        any chance we have the midi clock sync improved?
        seems it skips sometimes a 16th of a step...
        Also when starting the sequences with a midi comand it'll jitter on the start which occurs very much always...

        additional i would realy like to see some cv controlls for the mute function(HOME button),cv for layer function and some cv for one shot trigger funktion for sequences as well some kind of song mode for the layers (A,B,C,D)

        And like mentioned a lot of times please remove these awueful white frames with theyr mute function, please! We have the mute function in green and red which needs it self some more improvement for cv controll pretty much.

        please dont release any more modules, invest the time and work in your already released products, which is quite urgently needed! I would love to see some gamechanging improvement in form of a firmware update rather then a new module.


        • #79
          Freequenz I agree with the white-frame mute removal. I do not see why that behavior was included, it doesn't make sense to me esp. after using the v1.x firmware for a long time. Mute mode is there for a reason.

          As for the rest, I sympathize with Aaron and company (remember this is a very small operation) as I'm sure their work is never done and updating firmware doesn't exactly pay the bills. I totally understand that, which is why I'm saying I would support a crowd-sourced firmware improvement operation or something like that. I don't have a problem paying a small amount to help support the development of the module.

          Aaron I sometimes wonder if the alternative firmwares, or the development of the BlackBox, or the Laser firmware, did that take away from developing more solid versions of the basic functionality? I am using the latest firmware on the bit boxes and it's a tremendous improvement, but it's also taken a long time. The toolbox firmware is the same, except the toolbox took a much more radical shift in direction which I don't fully understand. Who do you consult with when you make choices like that, to alter remove the + - buttons from the UI? Is it just you two? Or do you have a user community to give you feedback? (maybe here?) And if so, will we see that feedback incorporated?

          Once again, I want to emphasize I understand the economics here and I'm willing to help change that to make it feasible to get these products as good as possible, but I kind of feel like you guys are moving on and leaving us behind with unfinished products.


          • #80
            For feedback on an existing product, like toolbox, this forum is the main place we go for feedback. Thanks for weighing in.

            In terms of how all of you can help, please give timely feedback on new beta versions--ideally, within one week. Beyond that and we have switched to other projects and start to question the interest level.


            • #81
              please get rid of these ridiculous white frames!!


              • #82
                I agree to take the white box. Not suitable for live performances. Also, reset input by trigger is required instead of midi. First of all, I want you to improve from here. Then you might want to use toolbox again.


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Aaron View Post
                  In terms of how all of you can help, please give timely feedback on new beta versions--ideally, within one week. Beyond that and we have switched to other projects and start to question the interest level.
                  There is a problem with this approach. If the community doesnt feel like there is anything happening in devolopment in the first place you stop checking the forum regularly and thus will miss the aforementioned update. This results in a vicious circle

                  And unfortunately this seems to be the reality.. Every time I recheck the forum i have to realize that still nothing happened besides some (mostly disappointed) community post and you people at least responding but always telling that there is nothing planned regarding the toolbox. So I more and more loose the interest to participate in the community which makes me sad since the toolbox deserves better.

                  If i get the feeling you are willing to invest more into toolbox i would be happy to be an active member of the community to to flower out the potential of this sequencer.


                  • #84
                    Im really hoping that this is a case of " no news is good news " . as this is really holding my work flow up , do i buy an over priced midi filter just for the toolbox or wait or sell it for something more capable to my needs


                    • #85
                      Aaron: I will pay you for the +/- buttons to come back. Seriously. These are essential to my live performances to switch presets. I cannot play without these. The removal of this feature has angered more users that I know of as well who don't frequent this forum.

                      You tell me what it would cost to get the +/- buttons back by say Aug 3rd. Is it doable? I really need them otherwise I'm going back to the old firmware and feeling like I'm missing out on a lot of improvements because no one asked about those buttons when they did the redesign. Those buttons are absolutely essential to playing a set with the toolbox. Do you perform using the toolbox?

                      I've been one of your biggest proponents of the Toolbox and probably one of your more prominent live users and I get tons of questions about it every time I play. I have been extremely positive about the module even when the firmware was still kind of buggy and the manual was weak / non-existent. I explained how the output allocation worked to numerous users who were extremely confused because this is not explained in the manual, or at least wasn't then.

                      I feel like I've done my part over the past several years to help sell Toolboxes for you, but I need your help to make this work. Maybe you don't want to sell anymore toolboxes, in which case I'll start letting people know. But if you do, please bring back the +/- buttons. Please.


                      • #86
                        Thanks for all of your feedback and suggestions here. I know that a few of you have issues that you feel are showstoppers and deserve our immediate action.

                        In the interest of setting a realistic expectation, you can expect a minor update to toolbox sometime in the next 6 months. By minor, I mean something like a toolbox 2.1 with some enhancements. We will review every request that has a separate topic on the toolbox wishlist section of the forum. If you really want something, please make sure that there is a dedicated topic. We will determine what to include in the update based on a number of factors, including the popularity of the request, impact to the usefulness of the product, time to implement, and how it fits with the overall vision.

                        We believe this represents an appropriate amount of free feature updates for a product originally released in late 2017.

                        I do appreciate the offer to pay for our development. We have a overwhelming number of opportunities before us. Choosing how to spend our time is the hardest part of our job.

                        Thank you for your support and understanding.


                        • #87
                          Look I'm willing to do paid firmware upgrades if it would mean that I actually get the features I want. Right now I'm not even that picky; I want the 'touching a part mutes it' to go away. I want the Plus/Minus preset buttons back. I would like the LFO's to fire in priority order, that is 1 before 2, 2 before 3, etc. By maybe 5ms. That's pretty much it.

                          Right now the double mute modes don't make sense. There's already a mute mode so why this was even added I don't understand?

                          The Plus Minus keys are absolutely essential to playing a set with the toolbox. You need to able to move between presets, not just load one preset with 4 variations. That's not enough. Having to go into the menu and navigate to do this is horribly painful and slow and infeasible at many points during a performance.

                          The LFO issue prevents the Toolbox from being able to reliably clock another sequencer. For example, if I have two clocks coming out of the Toolbox, one at 16ths and one firing once ever 1 bars as a reset, the reset will sometimes fire after the clock, sometimes before it. It's non-determinant. This means a sequencer being clocked by it will drift out of phase by one note on occasion and stay there until the reset / clock combo occurs in the correct order. Which is random.

                          I'm really trying to give you guys a viable option for developing the firmware further. I do not believe this product should be discontinued, but I strongly get the feeling that you guys at 1010 are pretty bleak on the toolbox and much more hyped about the blackbox and 2.0 modules. I mean, I get that the new shiny things should get more attention, I get that you are only 2 people + Steve.

                          I'm not sure what it would take. Do you need me to pre-pay you for features? Can we do a kickstarter or something? I mean, how much work is it realistically to implement what I've asked? As a former programmer myself, I understand that it may or may not be a big ask depending on the code.

                          I've been supporting you guys for a long time. I have 2x BitBox and 1 ToolBox. I am hesitant to consider the series 2.0 modules however because I feel that by 2022 you'll be on version 3.0 and discontinue the firmware for the 2.0 line. Then I'll be left with a bunch of modules that have lost development.


                          - TTA just released new firmware for the Trigger Riot which I believe came out in 2013
                          - Orthogonal continues to release very big updates for the ER101 and ER301 modules.
                          - Abstract Data just released new firmware for the ADE-32 which is at least 5 years old.
                          - Intelijel continues to offer firmware updates on almost all of its products include a recent very large update to the shapeshifter and rainmaker
                          - Expert Sleepers has diligently released version after version of the Disting MK4 firmware and this had helped to make the module incredibly popular.
                          - IME continues to offer firmware updates
                          - SynthTech (Paul) continues to release firmware updates for the E370 / E352
                          - Open source firmware like Mutable have seen firmware continuing to be developed
                          ---there are new versions of Braids firmware just release
                          ---Parasites firmware for Clouds, Warps add large numbers of new modes

                          Then let's consider:
                          -Reckless Experimentation released buggy firmware, never updated it, module is basically dead.
                          -XAOC doesn't believe in user-updatable firmware despite using a FPGA in their Odessa module, so the bugs are locked in

                          Look, I totally get that updating series 1 module firmware doesn't seem to sell modules for you on its face. But it's a gesture to the community that you will continue to support the product.

                          Again, if you're done with the Toolbox, which I kind of sense you are, why not open source the code? I doubt the toolbox code shares much with your 2.0 modules, am I wrong? Why not let the community develop the device like Mutable has done?


                          • Filterfreak
                            Filterfreak commented
                            Editing a comment
                            I get the feeling there's a toolbox 2 on the way and that the BETA version was to test for that new module hence we will get a small update within 6 months .
                            i totally agree with you on support Synthesis Technology offer a life time support . I feel like after having these modules for 8 months ive been burned with the toolbox .
                            Great modules but half baked

                        • #88
                          In the interest of trying to move this conversation forward, I am closing this thread.

                          We have committed to a toolbox 2.1 in the next 6 months. We are still actively developing the product--granted it may not at the pace you would prefer.

                          We want to hear your feature requests. We want to hear them in a separate thread and debate the merits individually. This thread moved has way beyond toolbox 2.0 feedback and it is time to conclude it.

                          Finally, we appreciate the offer to pay for features. We are a products company and not a services company. We are trying to maximize the happiness and satisfaction for all our customers and regret that it is not practical to make everyone happy along the way.

                          We look forward to your toolbox 2.1 feature requests.